Génération Podcast beyond borders with Arielle Nissenblatt (Earbuds Podcast Collective)
Chaque second jeudi du mois, Génération Podcast dépasse les frontières de l'héxagone pour découvrir l'industrie du podcast à l'étranger. ça s'appelle "Génération Podcast Beyond Borders". Cette semaine, on part à la rencontre de l'influenceuse Américaine du podcast, hyper active sur Twitter, et spécialiste des newsletters et de la création et de l'animation de communautés. Elle est la créatrice du Earbuds Podcast Collective, une newsletter de curation d'épisodes de podcasts par thèmes qu'elle a créée en février 2017, ainsi que le festival de podcasteurs indépendants, the Outlier Podcast Festival. Elle est une des confondatrices de Podcast Taxonomy, une plateforme visant à assurer une paie raisonnable et équitable dans tous les rôles dans le monde du podcast. Enfin, elle est à l'origine de la réponse de l'industrie du podcast américain à la décision historique de la Cour Suprême Américaine en juin 2022 ne garantissant plus le droit à l'avortement.
Pour retrouver le white paper sur les rôles et crédits dans le monde du podcast de Podcast Taxonomy dont Arielle parle dans l'épisode, direction ce lien.
Quelques podcasts à découvrir au travers de l'histoire podcastique d'Arielle :
Les 3 premiers podcasts qu'elle a écouté : Radiolab, This American Life et 99% Invisible
Tous les matins, Arielle écoute UpFirst (de NPR), The Daily (The New York Times), Today Explained de la veille (car il sort l'après-midi) ainsi qu'une série. En ce moment, elle dévore la série Project Unibomb de Apple Originals et Pinapple Street Studio.
Son podcast préféré : The Daily Zeigeist qu'elle aime débriefer avec son amie, Lauren Passel.
Extrait à propos de l’expérience sociale du podcast
Arielle Nissenblatt: When I first started listening to podcasts, I had big dreams of having podcast listening parties where we would just sit down and listen to a podcast together, as if with the same ease of turning on the TV and watching TV together. And I have been pushing that for a while, but my friends are skeptical. And I get it. You don't just want to sit in front of a blank space. You don't just want to look at each other and listen to a podcast. There's got to be an activity going on. So car rides are, of course, the closest I've come to that. There's no pleasure like introducing a podcast to somebody and they say, that is the best thing I've ever heard. I need more of that. Give me more recommendations. Five years ago, the podcast space was much more broad. Start a podcast and let's have five people around the table talking about whatever. And honestly, shows like that could do well back then. Shows like that could do well five years ago. But there's been a push to diversify the podcast space. There's been a push to also make sure that podcasts are not just chat shows.
Extrait à propos du futur du podcast
Arielle Nissenblatt: There's a lot more narrative, there's a lot more resources going into narrative productions, investigative productions. Those are a lot harder, they're a lot more expensive. But I think there are so many podcasts out there and there are more and more listeners coming into the space, hopefully every day. But my hope is that creators are understanding that in order to capture a listener, your show needs to be very top quality. Your show needs to be thought out. It needs to respect the listener's time. So I think there's definitely a movement towards planning out seasons, planning out episodes, marketing those episodes, really putting the time into market seasons and episodes, because if you don't, your show is going to get left behind. Gone are the days where you could just put a podcast up onto the airwaves and hope for the best, because there are too many other shows out there. And if your show has audio quality that is subpar, you're going to get passed over because somebody wants a more clean listening experience. Somebody wants to be able to not be shouted out into their headphones because you didn't do it at negative 16. Loves there's a lot going on when it comes to capturing a listener's attention. And I think we are moving towards a space where the average creator understands that quality is very important. Audio quality and content quality is very important.
Transcription de l'épisode
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Salut salut, good morning everyone ! Bienvenue dans Génération Podcast, le podcast qui parle de … podcasts. Et aujourd’hui, nous allons passer a l’anglais puisque je reçois Arielle Nissenblatt, ma toute première invitée non francophone dans le podcast. Si vous vous baladez du côté de Twitter, et que vous suivez ce qui se passe dans le podcast américain, alors vous avez sans doute déjà lu si ce n’est entendu Arielle Nissenblatt. Arielle est community manager chez Squadcast, une plateforme d’enregistrement à distance que vous connaissez sans doute. Elle est aussi la fondatrice d’un festival de podcasteurs inde, the outlier podcast festival, mais aussi et surtout la créatrice de la newsletter et du collectif The Earbuds Podcast Collective. Aujourd’hui avec Arielle, on va parler de carrière et de reconversion, mais aussi de newsletter et de réseaux sociaux dans le média et de communauté dans les podcasts, et bien entendu de … podcasts. Avant de switcher a l’anglais, sachez qu’une transcription complète de l’episode en anglais est dispo sur le site ecoutegenerationpodcast.com
Allez hop, c’est parti, direction New York en compagnie d’Arielle Nissenblatt !
Arielle, welcome! Thanks so very much for joining me today on Generation Podcast.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I'm very excited to be here and I like how my name sounds in French.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : It does, right?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes, it's perfect.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : I was just saying actually to people, they probably heard or read you because you are so active in the American podcast space. When I entered your name, like I do when I prepare for my interviews, I go to Spotify and enter the name of my guest: I was blown away to discover how many shows you've been on. Do you actually keep track?
Arielle Nissenblatt: No, but I really should. There are a few apps that will do it for you, like Podchaser, for example, tries to track every time your name indexes on RSS feeds. So that's pretty helpful. But I really should keep a nice portfolio
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Yes, you should! Because just in the past quarter, I think I found you on a dozen podcasts.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes, it’s a lot. I make myself very available and then I'm like, I'm tired. But also, I know ultimately it's a good thing to be everywhere. So I'm very happy.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : I was talking about I think the way I first got to know about your work was through the Earbuds podcast collective. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it is? It's a bit more than a newsletter.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, it started as a newsletter, but it was never just going to be me writing week after week and hoping that people read it. So in 2016, I was really starting to listen to a lot of podcasts, but I was kind of running out of podcasts to listen to, which was strange because I knew even at the time in 2016 that there were millions of podcasts to listen to, millions of episodes. And I kind of felt like I was missing out on potential incredible knowledge that could be burned into my brain by way of podcasts. And I thought that if I have my five favorite podcasts that I listen to week after week, you probably have yours, and your friend in Denver probably has theirs, and their friend in Paris probably has theirs. So how about we share our favorite podcast recommendations? So the way that newsletter started was always going to be as a collective to try to teach each other what we're listening to. So each week is curated by a different person and anyone can curate a list. They choose a theme and they find five podcast episodes on that theme. And people who subscribe to the newsletter can choose to maybe not listen to that week's theme at all because they're not interested, or to challenge themselves to go outside of their comfort zone and listen to all those episodes. Or at this point, it's been going on for more than five years and I've sent the newsletter out every single Sunday night. You could choose to listen to podcasts on a specific subgenre of themes. Like, I'm sure I have at least ten lists on women in tech or at least five lists on coffee distribution throughout the world. Honestly, there's like a lot going on. So really there's a lot of ways to interact with Earbuds Podcast Collective, and it's also a podcast. So in addition to being a newsletter, I put out a weekly podcast about those podcast recommendations where I center the voice of the curator. I ask them why they chose the theme to go through their five podcast episodes, and then to tell us what they hope listeners get out of that theme. And then it's a lot of other things too. It's a blog, it's learning opportunities, it's networking opportunities. So really just love the podcast space and everything I do is in service of that.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : That's quite amazing. Five years ago, you were actually sitting in a lot of traffic and you're like, okay, I want more of that. Five years later, you have turned your entire life around.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Oh, yes, everything I do, and from.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : From something that was fun on the side, podcasting has become your main industry, right? How did that happen? I heard a story about you pitching coworking spaces about creating studios for entrepreneurs.
Arielle Nissenblatt: In 2016, when I started the idea for Earbuds. So technically, the first issue of the newsletter went out February 13, 2017. Coincidentally, it was World Radio Day. I did not know, but I like that story.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Oh, Nice! That’s true.
Arielle Nissenblatt: That's true. I had recently graduated from college about two years before that, and I didn't really have a passion about where I wanted to work and what I wanted to do. I worked at a few different nonprofits throughout the country. I worked in Mississippi, in St. Louis and then in LA. And all those were jobs, they were fine. They gave me some money to live, but I was not like jazzed every day to wake up and go to work. The same feeling that I had when I was listening to podcasts. When I listened to podcasts, I was like, this is so awesome. It makes me feel like I'm learning. It makes me feel like I'm teaching. I love being at the forefront of this industry. So then my goal became, how do I get to make money in this space? How can I make this my job? And I know people say, don't make your passion your job, but it has worked out for me, and I'm here to tell you that it's okay if your passion… : it is possible. My goal was to get paid to be in the podcast space. And I did think maybe the newsletter will lead to some opportunities. Maybe the newsletter will become monetized. More likely, I can use the newsletter to get me to go to podcast conferences for free where I can make connections or just to legitimize myself in the space so I can then email people and say, “hey, I'd love to get a coffee. My name is Arielle. I run Earbuds”. And they can say, “oh, I know earbuds”. So that was my initial goal, but then I kind of wanted to fast track it. So I just really wanted to say that some of my income was coming by way of podcasts, a significant portion of my income. So I've always loved the way coworking spaces look. This was before WeWork crashed. So it was a different time, a new era. I loved coworking spaces. I really wanted to work in one just to be able to have a desk at a coworking space with the coffee and the Kombucha tap and the beer and the networking events. I just really liked the whole vibe. And so I thought, maybe I can make my way to a coworking space by convincing a coworking space to hire me as the podcast liaison. Can I be the person who businesses consult with if they're thinking of starting a podcast for their business?
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Yeah.
Arielle Nissenblatt: So I pitched that idea to a bunch of different coworking spaces, and this one called Village Workspaces that still is in existence. Of course, they've gone through several iterations because of the pandemic, but they wanted to build a podcast studio. And that's not what was initially in my pitch because I don't know how to build or to run a podcast studio. But I said yes. And I took on the project of building that podcast studio. And that meant figuring out how thick the walls should be and what the soundproofing should be. And we ran into the issue of the fact that the elevator was dinging nearby and we needed to get thicker paneling and lots of different things that we went through that. I learned a lot on the job, on the spot as things went along and had to find an engineer to engineer some sessions and had to find post production engineers and had to find people to actually pay money to record in the studio. So it was awesome. It was great because not only did I figure that out, but I also used it as a way to bring people to the coworking space to see how beautiful the coworking space was. And a lot of those people became members of the coworking space. So it worked in lots of different ways and it worked to legitimize me in the podcast space. I got to use the beautiful location to host networking events, which further created connections. And yeah, so grateful to everybody who said yes to me over the years.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : That's awesome. Since then, you have joined Squarecast, the platform that we're using actually right now to record and also in the taxonomy podcast.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes, Podcast Taxonomy.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Can you just explain to us what it is? I think it's something that's so important.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, actually this came about from working in the coworking space. I became friendly with somebody named Daniel Rosenberg who worked for a company called Staff Me Up, which is a company that helps TV and film fill out their rosters of production assistants and editors and directors and whatever they need casting agents. So it's a well established website that matches jobs with job seekers in film and TV. And he said, why is there not really something like this for podcasts? And I said, that's a really good question. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that when we say that you're a podcast producer, what the hell does that mean? Like, nobody really knows what a podcast producer is. No one really knows what an engineer does. But more than that, maybe I can give a few bullet points for what an engineer does, but an Engineer on one project might do something completely different from an engineer on another project in the podcast space, whereas in film and TV, those roles are much more outlined and there's a pay scale associated with them. That's not really the case in podcasting still. So the goal was to create an international multidisciplinary database of roles and credits in the podcast space. So defining what a podcast producer is, defining what engineer is, defining how much they should make in different markets, and then making those job descriptions available so that people can adopt them, so that they can say, here is what an engineer does. By definition, from the podcast taxonomy, this is what you'll be doing at our company. So the way that podcast taxonomy functions is it's a website with a white paper, and it is under the jurisdiction of Podchaser, which is the IMDb of podcasting recently acquired by Acast. And we have a white paper that we update once a year. Once we have new information, we try to add new languages, we try to add different definitions. Like, for example, Engineer might mean something different in the UK English than it might mean in US English. So lots of different factors go into this and it will be a living, breathing document for a very long time, I hope forever. And we have a slack channel that you can contribute to and that's the gist of it.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : That's awesome. I'm going off track right now. So in France, we've been doing podcasts for a very long time, but some people will disagree with me, but many people think that we're basically following the tracks of American podcasting. I'm curious to see if, to hear from you how the podcast industry has kind of evolved over the past five years since you first stepped foot into that industry to today, because I'm sure that we can draw some parallels with where we're going in French.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, I actually just met a bunch of French podcasters through this program, Sound.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Oh! Yes. Sounds of New York?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes! So that was really cool. So shout out if you're listening my friends! I had a lot of fun. It's interesting because I almost want French podcasting to diverge from US podcasting, and I also really want to become more familiar with not just us centric podcasting. So if you want to have a chat with me and you are a French podcaster or you are a British podcaster, I'd love to talk with you because I want to make sure that my understanding of the podcast space is not just us centric. But from what I understand five years ago, the podcast space was much more bro-ey. It was much more like “Let’s start a podcast and let's have five people around the table talking about whatever”. And honestly, shows like that could do well back then. Shows like that could do well five years ago. But there's been a push to diversify the podcast space. There's been a push to also make sure that podcasts are not just chat shows. There's a lot more narrative, there's a lot more resources going into narrative productions, investigative productions. Those are a lot harder, they're a lot more expensive. But I think there are so many podcasts out there and there are more and more listeners coming into the space hopefully every day. But my hope is that creators are understanding that in order to capture a listener, your show needs to be very top quality. Your show needs to be thought out, it needs to respect the listeners time. So I think there's definitely a movement towards planning out seasons, planning out episodes, marketing those episodes, really putting the time into market seasons and episodes, because if you don't, your show is going to get left behind. Gone are the days where you could just put a podcast up onto the airwaves and hope for the best because there are too many other shows out there. And if your show has audio quality that is sub par, you're going to get passed over because somebody wants a more clean listening experience. Somebody wants to be able to not be shouted out into their headphones because you didn't do it at negative 16 Luffs. There's a lot going on when it comes to capturing a listener's attention. And I think we are moving towards a space where the average creator understands that quality is very important. Audio quality and content quality is very important.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Basically, the podcast industry is professionalizing a lot more. Right. We have to put more resources on the quality, the engineering, the mix and the marketing, which we're going to get back to in just a second. I'm just wondering, how is it in the US right now? Is there still a lot of space for independent podcasters? Because as we're growing in skills and professionalization, as it's requiring more and more resources, this is a bit of a limiting factor when you're doing that on top of your nine to five, on top of your family, on top of everything, when it's not your main job.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, I think there is space for independent creators and I think there's space for independent creators who don't have 40 hours a week to dedicate to their shows. But I think those independent creators need to make sure that they are not just creating and hoping. And one way that they can do that is by really immersing themselves into the creator space that is the podcast space. That means these are not expensive things that they need to do. These are not that time consuming of activities that they need to be taking part in. But I think that independent creators need to be on podcast, Twitter. Independent creators need to be subscribed to the podcast newsletters, podcast recommendation newsletters, and the podcast industry newsletters. And they need to be reading up on trends and they need to be identifying podcasts that are in their niche that they could be collaborating with or making sure that they are diverging from. That's a big part of it. It's too many people are making the same podcast and then wondering why theirs is not doing well. It's because it's very similar to another one that has better audio quality. So just making sure that you have something unique about your podcast and that you're really putting in the time and getting other opinions on your show. So not just putting out into the world what you think is really awesome, but making sure that somebody else thinks it's really awesome before it goes out into the world. And I'm not saying it's easy to plug into the podcast space. It takes time. It takes time to follow people on Twitter and interact with them meaningfully. It takes time to subscribe to these newsletters and then become internet friends with the newsletter writers so that they might cover you in some way. But I think the podcast industry really rewards people who genuinely interact with “gatekeepers”. So I run a podcast recommendation newsletter. Anyone can curate that newsletter. You just heard that from me. Anyone can curate that newsletter. Yes, I'm the gatekeeper in the sense that I ultimately decide what newsletter goes out when. But if you curate a list for me and you include one of your own episodes as part of that list, you're going to get featured on my newsletter. And that's a really great way for your podcast to reach a bunch of new listeners. But what happens is that a lot of people email me and they say, “hello, would love to be featured in your newsletter”. And I'm telling you right now that that's not the way to pitch me. The way to pitch me is by reading my newsletter and seeing that anyone can curate a list. So it's certain things like do your research, do your research, know how certain people like to be pitched. This doesn't take a lot of time. This doesn't take a lot of money. It takes no money in a lot of ways. I can give you a list of things that you can do with no money to get your podcast out there, but it does take reading and meaningfully interacting with this space that has been existing.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : So you actually spread advice like this on Twitter? Mostly Twitter.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes, mostly Twitter. LinkedIn. Sometimes LinkedIn too.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Okay, we just connected on LinkedIn, so I'm just learning there. But you speak a lot about podcast marketing and especially the use of social media and newsletter for obvious reasons. Does every podcast in the newsletter in your opinion?
Arielle Nissenblatt: No, definitely not.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Why would you need one?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Good question. So if you have time, that's a big part of it is only do things if you have time to put real effort into creating a quality product. When it comes to social media newsletters, anything that you're creating for the marketing of your podcast or as an adjacent, maybe indirect avenue to market your podcast, you need to be able to put in the time to make that piece of content stand on their own. Stand on its own. If you start a newsletter for your podcast, it can't just be a place.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Here is my show!
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, exactly. A place where you say, new episode out. Now here's a link to it because that's not interesting at all. People are going to unsubscribe you're, not adding value. But if you have a podcast and it's about food, and you obviously can't show pictures of food on your podcast, a newsletter would be a really great way to show such an awesome tomato dish that you just made. The red really stands out in this iPhone image that you took. It's so beautiful. And you cannot convey that on your podcast, but you can convey that in your newsletter. You can also convey that on Instagram. So choosing social media platforms and newsletter platforms based on where you like to spend your time and where you're genuinely talented at sharing information, can you put together a beautiful looking newsletter? If you can't, or if you can't hire somebody to do that, don't do it.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Yeah, because there's just too much, right?
Arielle Nissenblatt: It's too much.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : So what should your goal be with a newsletter? From what I'm hearing from you, I don't think it's really downloads, right? I don't think so. It's really your brand awareness, I think, building your credibility.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, I think it's about building up your authority in the space. When people receive your newsletter, when people see your tweets, when people see your Instagram posts, when people read your LinkedIn posts, they want to know that you are adding value to the conversation around your topic area and they want to trust you. So that when you do, every 10th post, say, you can listen to more information on this topic on my podcast, they'll say, you know what, I really do want more information on this topic because I really trust this person because they have made me trust them by way of their other posts. So another thing to consider is when having a newsletter, you actually own those subscribers and they have opted in to receive correspondence from you. So you can email them because they have checked a box that says it is okay to email me. But when people subscribe to your podcast on Spotify or on Apple, you don't know who those people are. You know, to the extent that they leave you a review and they have a username and you can see what that username is, and maybe you're able to surmise from that username that this person is Arielle Nissenblatt, born in 1992. AJ Niss 1992. I know some information about her, and that's just extrapolation of data. I don't necessarily know that she's born in 1992, therefore she's a millennial. Therefore she might be interested in these types of products. But if she opts in to receive my email address, then I can run a poll or a survey, and I can say, give me some information about you so that you can tell me what products you might like to hear about on my podcast, or I can find out from you what segments of my show you love and which you could do without. Which ones are you skipping over? Do you like these types of guests or these types of guests? How should I change my show so that you are more and more engaged in my show? So I'm a big fan of grabbing email addresses, even if you're not using them right away or on a consistent basis, but you can save them for a time where you do want to hit them up with questions or comments or send them pictures of tomatoes.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : (laughs) That's such a great idea.
So from listening to some podcasts will stick in the LA traffic in your car to coordinating an entire response of the American podcast industry in response to what the Supreme Court did just about a month ago, actually today, to overturn Roe v. Wade in June. It's quite a jump. Congratulations and thank you for what you did. While our listeners are mostly in France, the news has had a significant impact around the world. Generation Podcast is actually airing a French version of the preroll that you worked on. Could you explain the situation and maybe how you decided to take action?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah! On June 24, 2022, the supreme Court of the US. Decided to overturn Roe vs. Wade, which was the decision that gave safe and legal access to abortion in the US. In 1973. And in March of this past year, there was a leaked opinion that this was going to happen in June. So we were sort of prepared. But still, receiving the push notification on your phone that it actually happened was pretty shocking. And initially I was taken aback, even though I knew it was happening and I was not going to do anything about it because what could I do? I've said this before, but I'm political in the sense that I know what's going on. I listen to political podcasts, I read political news. I talk about it with my friends and family, but I'm not usually the first person at a protest. I'm not usually the first person to spread a Signature campaign. I'll sign those things. I'll go to the protest eventually, but I'm not usually the first to know about them. So I'm politically engaged, but I'm not the first person that's politically engaged. So at first I thought, who am I to lead something on this? But then I thought, I am somebody to lead something in the podcast space. And how can the podcast space uniquely respond to this? I reach thousands of podcasters every single day via Twitter, via LinkedIn, via Instagram, newsletters, whatever it is. So even if 1000 podcasters only have ten downloads per episode, which is on the lower side, probably that's a low estimate. That's still a lot of people that were reaching with a message. So I thought … I just shot off a tweet and I said let's come together to write some language in opposition to the Supreme Court decision. Some language that offers support, offers resources and just generally informs people about what happened and how it is going to affect the population. And within 48 hours we had preroll ads, we had a 30-second, a 60-second, and then a 90-second. And of course we call them pre roll ads because I think it's most impactful if it runs at the beginning of the show, it stops you in your tracks, but of course you can read them wherever you want. And it is all available on Podvoices.help: a website created by Marcus De Paula, who I'm amazed because a lot of people reached out to help in this effort. But he said, “I'm building you a website. Let me know if I should not do that.” And I said, “you should build me a website. Thank you.” So he built this amazing website that houses these scripts. It also houses a form where after your episode is live, you can put the link to it to share that, so you can be counted in the number of podcasts that have done this. So it's really amazing and I'm just really grateful for all the people who stepped up and helped the language because again, like I said, I'm not a policy expert and of course I write scripts sometimes, but I'm not a scriptwriting expert. So we had people come in who are both of those things and who are advocates and really it was amazing how fast it came together. And I knew it had to come together fast because unfortunately, in this day and age, people lose momentum, especially when the next piece of news breaks. So we moved fast and we had that statement and hundreds of podcasts have read it so far on their shows. It could be more. Not everybody is submitting at Podvoices.help/contact, but there have been some podcasts that are huge. My favorite Murder is a huge podcast that took part. Stuff You Should Know is a huge podcast that took part. The Daily Zeitgeist is one of my favorite podcasts and they took part. It's really been very cool.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : That's amazing. What impact were you hoping to have with this initiative?
Arielle Nissenblatt: To spread awareness and to give resources, because I know that a podcast ad is not going to overturn the overturning of Roe vs. Wade, but at least if somebody is in danger or needs to have access to an. Abortion or needs to have access to life saving abortion care, they now might be aware of a resource that they were not aware of beforehand.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Do you foresee the podcast industry taking a role in I mean, I'm hoping that too much more happens, but we know it might. So I don't know what word to use here… in this fight, for fundamental rights.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Definitely. I think the goal of the website Podvoices Help is to make more scripts available to people when world events take place. So the way I'm seeing it is that in theory, if Podvoices.help was around during the time or right when Russia invaded Ukraine, we might have been able to say, this is what's happened here's where you can donate. So I do plan to make things like this available in the future by way of that website.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : That's great. And all the scripts that the preroll that you were referring to have been translated in so many languages. Right. Like, I didn't even have to translate it to French. It was done for me.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Exactly, yes. It was amazing. People reached out and they said, how can we help? And I was overwhelmed because by the number of people who wanted to help and by the news and by the fact that I was at a conference for my job at the time, and I had a lot of people who reached out and said, “I'm doing this for you. Please let me know if I should not.” Right. Like I said with Marcus. And that is such a great way to help people.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : That's awesome. That's great. Congratulations for doing that. And to everyone who helped!
I'd like to talk about what you listened to. Do you remember what was the first podcast you ever listened to?
Arielle Nissenblatt: It's a tie. I can't remember exactly. Between Radiolab, this American life and 99% invisible. One of them.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Okay. Three really good ones!
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah. All of them blew my mind. All of them. I was like, wow. First of all, I want to have this information beamed in my brain constantly. I feel smarter. But also, I'm not a big reader. I've never been a big reader. And I imagine that some of the concepts within those podcasts are available by way of reading, but I'm just not the type of person to sit down with a book and get that out, to extrapolate that information, to get that information. So I think that but also, listening to it does give another dimension. I really like hearing people talking to me about these amazing concepts, and it just happens to be the way my brain likes to process information is by way of ears. By way of my ears. I'm so grateful that I found podcast listening, audiobook listening, just listening in general.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Right, talking about listening. What's the latest one? Did you listen to anything this morning?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes, I always wake up and I listen to UpFirst from NPR, and then I listen to the Daily and then I usually listen to Today Explained, but that's an afternoon podcast, so that's catching up on the day before. I always do the Daily podcast and then, I usually like to keep up with a show that is a series at that time. So right now I'm listening to Project Unibomb, which is about the Unabomber. So that's really interesting from Apple Originals and Pineapple Street, really enjoying that and it's just cool because what I think I like about that one is because I'd heard of the Unabomber growing up, but I was not really old enough to be present for the analysis of it. So this is really an interesting look into why this guy was radicalized and what he was radicalized on and how they found him and the whole FBI resource deployment really fascinating.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Oh good. I haven't listened to it yet. Do you have any preference between short and long form?
Arielle Nissenblatt: I use short and long forms for different purposes. So I love the quick breakdown of UpFirst. I also listen to Consider This from NPR. That's another afternoon podcast that gives you what I really like about Consider This as it does the national news and then it geotargets you and gives you the news in your area. Yeah, it's really great. So if I'm listening here in the New York area today, it'll say and stay tuned afterwards for a look at what's going on in the New York region. But if I go to Denver, it'll say, let's find out what's going on in Denver. It will be the local NPR affiliate in Denver giving you the news there. So I really like that. But then I do love a long podcast. I listen to a long daily podcast. It's called the Daily Zeitgeist. Every day it's like an hour and I listen on 1.7 speed, so it's a little bit faster than an hour. But I enjoy that too because it's not just a breakdown of the news. It's also usually with a comedian or somebody who has relevance in the cultural zeitgeist, and they talk about the news as it relates to them and to what they're working on in the world.
*** The zeitgeist is the collective attitude or outlook of people or a culture at a specific point in time. Zeitgeist can be used in discussion of the current moment, a narrow period of time in the past, or a broader period or era. (from dictionnary.com)
Anne-Fleur Andrle : What do you love? What do you hate? Do you hate anything? I'm not asking for the name of the show, but is there something that you know you're not going to listen to because there is this kind of approach or something that people do want to show that makes you not want to listen to it?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Well, I'll talk about this. It's probably going to be controversial-ish, but I'm a big fan of the concept of audio dramas and I've enjoyed and listened to a few, but they are not the ones that I seek out. If somebody tells me, you have to listen to this audio drama, I will listen to it and I will enjoy it, but I am not really going to seek it out on my own. And I've tried to theorize on this a lot. I think it's because when I first started listening to podcasts I did it to learn facts and I did it to learn about people in real life. And so my brain is wired to when listening be getting real facts and analysis of the news and analysis of current events. And so I think I will enjoy an audio drama or a fiction podcast every once in a while. But I have to tell my mind this is not necessarily the truth about the world, this is a creative endeavor and I enjoy those creative endeavors but again, for some reason I just don't seek them out on my own. So it's sort of an interesting dichotomy because I will read fiction and I will watch fiction and those are fine with me for some reason. And I think that's because when I first started watching or reading I read fiction, but because I started out listening to podcasts that were nonfiction, I have to actively train myself to listen to fiction.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Yeah, that makes sense. It's an acquired taste, fiction. I had a similar experience but now I've learned to love it. But I understand where you’re coming from. (laughs) So you're talking about your newsletter that's featuring five podcasts or five episodes of a podcast every week. Do you get to listen to all five every week? Do you have the time to listen to all five?
Arielle Nissenblatt: I do not. I did at first in 2017 and 18. I listened to every single episode to make sure that I wasn't recommending something that was like dangerous to recommend. Now I usually listen to the first few minutes to ensure that and of course some things are going to slip through the cracks. But no, I can't listen to everything. I wish I could.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : So how much active listening do you ever do during the day? It sounds like you're listening to a lot of people.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I am. I probably listen to 5 hours a day. Five times a day? Yeah, something around that. 5 hours a day. I listen when I wake up, when I'm brushing my teeth, when I'm getting my coffee ready, when I go for a walk, if I go for a walk when I'm doing anything really, I just try to have a podcast on. And when I'm driving, of course, which isn't often, but I love driving because of podcasts. Really just try to fit them in whenever I can.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : It sounds like it's mostly something that you listen to yourself, but I know that some people also will listen to them like I don't know, as a couple, with friends or if they don't listen together in the same room, at least they debrief it. How social is your podcast experience?
Arielle Nissenblatt: When I first started listening to podcasts, I had big dreams of having podcast listening parties where we would just sit down and listen to a podcast together as if with the same ease of turning on the TV and watching TV together. And I have been pushing that for a while, but my friends are skeptical. And I get it. You don't just want to sit in front of a blank. You don't just want to look at each other and listen to a podcast. There's got to be an activity going on. So car rides are, of course, the closest I've come to that. There's no pleasure like introducing a podcast to somebody and they say, “that is the best thing I've ever heard. I need more of that, give me more recommendations”. But mostly I do a lot of listening to the same podcast as people and then catching up. So I have a friend named Lauren. Lauren Pacel. She runs Tink Media and Podcast the newsletter. And we both listen to The Daily Zeitgeist and we love it. We're in the Zeitgang and we really love talking about The Daily Zeitgeist and talking about the different guests that they have and debriefing on how this new cohost changed the dynamic. So lots of connection there.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Is there a tip that maybe someone gave to you or in retrospect, you would have loved to be given that may have, like, I don't know, saved you time or made you grow in confidence as you were getting started that people could benefit from today?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Definitely. I wish I knew earlier on, and I found this out myself, that the best way to get into the podcast space is not in production. If you want to do production, that's really awesome, but there's a lot more jobs, it seems, in marketing or the business side of podcasting. And then that's a really great way to get into the space, to make your way into the space. And it's something that you can do if you're a self starter. You can come up with a newsletter. You can come up with a podcast about podcasting. You can come up with a piece that is ancillary to the podcast space, but that helps the podcast space and then use that to bring yourself in. So when I started Earbuds, I didn't know that that's what I was doing, but it ended up working that way. And I wish I knew early on that that was a path in.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Generation Podcast is a French podcast, as I'm sure you've heard from my terrible accent. (laughs) I am trying in this third season to really diversify and branch off of only what do we do in France? And tried to look in other countries, in other industries. Like, what do they do and what can we learn from them? Who should I talk to next?
Arielle Nissenblatt: That is such a good question. Have you spoken to Bryan Barletta?
Anne-Fleur Andrle : No. You're my first American guest.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Oh! No way.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Yes.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Bryan Barletta is the creator of Sounds Profitable, which is a weekly newsletter about the business of podcasting. And he is really awesome, knows a lot about ad tech, but also a lot about just the future of the industry. He has a lot of really great predictions and likes also to speak to those predictions and just the industry as a whole, not just from the US perspective, but definitely comes from the US perspective, so has a lot of connections and would really be a great person to talk to.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Thank you very much. Arielle, it was lovely to talk to you and I wish you all the best for the future.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Thank you for having me. It was so great to chat with you. And hello to all my new French fans.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Alright, that’s it folks! Thanks so much for listening to Arielle Nissenblatt and I on Generation Podcast. For more content in English about podcasting beyond the borders of France, tune in every second Thursday of the month for a new expert interview. Switching back to French now. Merci de nous avoir écoutées !
Arielle Nissenblatt: My dog might bark, so please excuse she's getting ready. She thinks she sees the dog outside. She does. Just a second.
Anne-Fleur Andrle : Do you have a sensor? Like you feel it going?
Arielle Nissenblatt: She started grumbling.
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